Comments for Christianity For Babies at http://www.johnsmulo.com , comment 1 to 48 out of 20 comments http://www.johnsmulo.com Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:40:54 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4338 Diane, These things certainly seem to be close associates. - John Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:28:39 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4337 How about the corollary, "a church that meets my needs?" - Diane Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:23:23 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4253 Toni, Sounds great. Don't know what you meant by "OT"? - John Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:36:18 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4223 "I ..... would love to see churches spending more time in the community during the week as well." I'd left out the non-church stuff because it was kind of OT, but we've got mums'n'toddlers, over 60s, some youth work and stuff I don't have any detail on going on. We don't have a building, but we've helped finance and provide a large 'portakabin' structure to serve a particular community. - Toni Fri, 15 Jun 2007 09:11:02 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4170 Kayak Angel 8, It was good to catch up with you and everyone last night. This has bothered me for a long time too. I don't think Christians who are in this situation need more teaching, but more doing; not more learning, but more serving. - John Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:34:52 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4167 This has bothered me for a long time. I use to hear the saying, There are the doers, and then there are those who sit back expecting while criticizing. Many people would come into a church to be spoon fed while a very small percentage was active in: teaching Sunday School, visiting the shut-ins, helping with the homeless or needy, prayer groups etc. I heard the allegory of a healthy Christian to a river with life compared to a spoon-fed selfish Christian to the Dead Sea where nothing could survive. I don’t know if this is truly accurate, and it may seem harsh, but I believe healthy Christians are active, are supportive, reach out to others etc. In other words, healthy Christians are Missional even if they truly don’t understand the terminology of Missional. Am I too judgmental? I have witnessed new baby Christians becoming excitedly active. However, there may be some Christians who are acting like babies because they are afraid or confused. Do you think they just may need some teaching or encouragement? Do their leaders and friends lead some Christians astray? What is our responsibility? - kayak Angel 8 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:02:45 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4166 Jon, Lots of helpful thoughts. I hadn't thought about the connections between feeding and worship before. Very perceptive. The more I'm learning by observing a a recovery ministry here, the more I think the church has much to learn from them. So it is good to hear your thoughts in relation to this. I think that if both parties are co-dependent that it takes them getting out of denial about this, though I'm not sure if it matters whether it is the "supplier" or "consumer" that initiates change. It's normally the consumer who has control over what is supplied in everyday life, I wonder if we haven't given enough credit to the "consumer" in regard to church? - John Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:10:59 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4165 Toni, I like the sound of your midweek groups and meetings as far as interaction, but would love to see churches spending more time in the community during the week as well. You wrote, "There's no compulsion to do so, but to stand back and spectate week after week would make any decent person feel uncomfortable." This is a telling observation. The sad thing is that a lot of people who are otherwise decent have been lulled into apathy--not saying they aren't complicit in this--by particular models of church. - John Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:07:00 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4164 WOW, missed this somehow ... very busy, and I think Lyn must have clicked it as read on my feeder. The slant on this that I've been used to is a comment on the sung worship: "I got so much out of the worship today." "I didn't like the songs today etc." "It's so anointed when ..." I comes from the same stock as the feed comments. Consider this metaphor. The addiction ministry I visit each week insists on abstinence as the path to recovery. This forces the issues to the surface. That is an interesting one, because they work with people with various eating disorders too, who obviously don't abstain from food, only from 'using' food improperly. It seem to me that the consumers you refer to above have a for of feeding disorder - yet are blissfully unaware of it - probably they believe they owe it to God to make sure they receive good and correct teaching. This is an overflow from the Hellenistic Academy 'information' style discipleship the church has adopted, separated from life practice. Therefore, to be a good disciple (follower of Jesus) I need to make sure I'm getting good supply of good information. Back to the feeding disorder. If the supplier and consumer are codependent then maybe the supplier has to initiate to initiate the recovery? What do you think? What might this look like? - Jon (with an on) Wed, 13 Jun 2007 03:02:05 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4163 It seems I'm a little late to the conversation. A key part of this is the traditional church set up, especially the model run in North America, but also to a certain extent England. Continental Europe is different, and the Christian church a different character. I've not really heard the first 2, and I've only occasionally heard the 3rd. I found this topic particularly interesting because I've been reflecting on our church recently, and how it feels like we've been on a journey, gone through several years of difficult refinement, yet by certain standards our Sunday meetings are not impressive. Our church life is in our midweek groups and meetings. People share their thoughts, experiences, prophetic words, insights and worship. Various people have responsibility to guide these gatherings, to make sure they happen in a useful manner, that things don't get out of hand or run off into the heavily negative. But essentially it's pretty much body ministry, even though there will be semi-formal teaching (usually designed to produce discussion). If someone sits silently, week after week, there's a sign that something is wrong, although it's not usually in the area of being fed. And people are expected to serve. There's no compulsion to do so, but to stand back and spectate week after week would make any decent person feel uncomfortable. There's service to the church, service to the community, various kinds of things available. Certainly enough stuff that no-one could deny they were offered the opportunity to grow in service. Some groups work well and some less well. There are certain people that will turn every conversation round to focus on themselves, their troubles, pains, problems, wishes... whatever. Having 2 such characters in a small group makes it 'interesting'. Sometimes leading such a group makes you feel a little like a referee. But even in this situation the majority of people can still contribute, offer direction and encouragement. And sometimes one needs to have a stern word. We're far from being *perfect* as a church, but I see this as a model of church that reflects being the body of Jesus together, each one having a role and opportunity to grow through their own connection with Jesus and each other. - Toni Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:53:40 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4159 Lainie, Thanks for further clarifying. That's where I'm at. "Triple sheesh" -- you are a dangerous person. Risky. Very risky. Very few people have spoke a triple sheesh and lived to tell the tale 8) - John Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:14:20 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4158 Sonja, That's interesting to hear about your dad and stats. I wasn't too far off :) Still trying to activate those dang wonder twin powers :-\ True about leaders and whole of congregation. - John Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:10:53 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4157 Mike, I dug the wonder twin powers comment too. Very true about the price of seminary education, but I think especially in America, Canada, and I think England. In Australia I bet my five years cost less than one year would have cost me in America. - John Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:08:04 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4156 Webb, You've gone from being a man of many words to being as concise as a, well, concise ;D - John Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:05:37 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4155 Paul W, I'm tracking with you in regard to the two different groups. But I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean when you say the majority of Christians cannot feed themselves. Do you mean they literally cannot, or choose not to? Or perhaps a third option that you think they chose not to for so long that they've virtually lost the ability even if they chose to change? - John Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:04:48 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4153 Mike and f: Quite so. . .while some denominations offer an alternative track to ministry ordination or licensure for non-seminary grads, those ordained or licensed under such programs are often relegated to a second-class status within the denomination. In fairness, though, many churches and denominations don't require a seminary education to be ordained, but they might have their own barriers to those who are called to leadership/service. - Lainie Petersen Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:26:50 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4152 Mike - thanks for bringing up Simony. I haven't heard/read that word in years. You are quite right, an aweful lot of people "buy" their way into ministry and ecclesiological influence in all sorts of ways. We are totally kidding ourselves if we think church is simply a meritocracy or giftocracy. - f Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:49:12 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4151 John: No, I don't advocate that anyone can do anything. But neither do I believe that the only way to get "fed" is through preaching or formal teaching. Nor do I believe that preaching and formal teaching are the be-all-and-end-all of a local church's purpose/mission. I believe that more than just a few professionals within a church can preach and teach formally. I believe the same about informal teaching, exhortation, counseling, support, rebuking in love, etc. Not everyone is going to necessarily be able to do all of these things well, but I'd say that that everyone in a church is capable of doing some of it. This gets back to my annoyance over people thinking that they can be "fed" some special teaching that is going to turbo-charge their spirituality. (Ironically, this reminds me of folks who keep looking for a magic bullet diet pill.) They judge their "feeding" subjectively, only responding to what they want to respond to. They fail to acknowledge that there is more to being a Christian than listening to a sermon or teaching. They are surrounded by a banquet but are trying to subsist on the garnishes. Triple sheesh! ;D - Lainie Petersen Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:56:44 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4149 John wrote: [i]"Seems that you've been to the George Barna school of statistical trends"[/i] LOL ... naw ... I grew up in the Ben Naylor school of statistics (i.e. my dad is a statistician ... seeing patterns, trends, and behaviors was part of the meat and potatoes at our house). OTOH ... I do think that the problem is systemic and part of a dance that involves both congregation and leaders equally. - sonja Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:47:32 +0100 http://www.johnsmulo.com/christianity-for-babies-7.html#comment-4148 Lainie, Good point on your double sheesh! But I get the feeling people don't think through this anymore than a baby thinks through hunger pains. - John Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:03:35 +0100